Decentralized Web - Revision history

1G-N15 at 10:01, 30 December 2025

2025-12-30T10:01:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:01, 30 December 2025
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	= Lemmy (or Usenet) Is Where It's At On The Fediverse =		== Lemmy (or Usenet) Is Where It's At On The Fediverse ==

	[https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/12455-Indieweb-vs.-Fediverse What is federation even for? The UX kind of sucks.] Your fetching is done through the server, not anonymously (e.g. using Atom/RSS), so there's the constant fear of your server and the other server's admins fighting with each other and blocking each other. You need a server and an account to follow in the first place, unlike Atom/RSS, which also hurts your privacy. And because things are push-based, spam is an issue.		[https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/12455-Indieweb-vs.-Fediverse What is federation even for? The UX kind of sucks.] Your fetching is done through the server, not anonymously (e.g. using Atom/RSS), so there's the constant fear of your server and the other server's admins fighting with each other and blocking each other. You need a server and an account to follow in the first place, unlike Atom/RSS, which also hurts your privacy. And because things are push-based, spam is an issue.
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	Also, Lemmy usually has less qualms about full-text search (heck, it's available as [[https:''help.kagi.com/kagi/features/lenses.html\|a built-in lens on Kagi]]), which already puts it 1000% ahead Mastodon. ((Yes, Pleroma/Akkoma exists, which luckily also enable full-text search by default. Akkoma does what Mastodon't!))		Also, Lemmy usually has less qualms about full-text search (heck, it's available as [[https:''help.kagi.com/kagi/features/lenses.html\|a built-in lens on Kagi]]), which already puts it 1000% ahead Mastodon. ((Yes, Pleroma/Akkoma exists, which luckily also enable full-text search by default. Akkoma does what Mastodon't!))

	= USENET Is Web 3 =		== USENET Is Web 3 ==

	Send post.		Send post.
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	(If you connected to multiple news servers.)		(If you connected to multiple news servers.)

	= Rederiving Web 3 =		== Rederiving Web 3 ==

	[[:Web 1]]: you post online by hosting a server (e.g. example.com)		[[:Web 1]]: you post online by hosting a server (e.g. example.com)
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	I think that is important? After all, [[:self hosting]] is the most reliable way of making sure your stuff stays online (compared to relying on third party servers). What [[:Web 3]] helps with, then, is for people who can't find a trusted someone to help them host. And for [[:self hosters]], I guess it provides a sort of redundancy layer?		I think that is important? After all, [[:self hosting]] is the most reliable way of making sure your stuff stays online (compared to relying on third party servers). What [[:Web 3]] helps with, then, is for people who can't find a trusted someone to help them host. And for [[:self hosters]], I guess it provides a sort of redundancy layer?

	== How Does Cryptocurrency Fit Into This? ==		=== How Does Cryptocurrency Fit Into This? ===

	It doesn't! Well, I guess it could, in two ways:		It doesn't! Well, I guess it could, in two ways:
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	But in my definition, where I'm talking about [[:Nostr]] or [[:IPFS]], or heck, [[:torrents]] (which, yes, is [[:Web 3]]), [[:cryptocurrency]] is completely optional. You could have other motivations for hosting an open node, such as giving back to the [[:space]], being a non-profit, etc.		But in my definition, where I'm talking about [[:Nostr]] or [[:IPFS]], or heck, [[:torrents]] (which, yes, is [[:Web 3]]), [[:cryptocurrency]] is completely optional. You could have other motivations for hosting an open node, such as giving back to the [[:space]], being a non-profit, etc.

	= Nostr's Where It's At On The Fediverse =		== Nostr's Where It's At On The Fediverse ==

	[[:Nostr]] (Notes and Other Stuff Through Relays) is hecking awesome. For those coming from [[:ActivityPub]], you can think of it like being on multiple instances by default, instead of just one. They are responsible for helping you relay your posts to others, and for storing your posts.		[[:Nostr]] (Notes and Other Stuff Through Relays) is hecking awesome. For those coming from [[:ActivityPub]], you can think of it like being on multiple instances by default, instead of just one. They are responsible for helping you relay your posts to others, and for storing your posts.

1G-N15 at 15:09, 27 December 2025

2025-12-27T15:09:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:09, 27 December 2025
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	Also, yes, [[:Nostr]] ''is'' part of the [[:Fediverse]]. It doesn't just mean [[:ActivityPub]], you know! It encompasses many different protocols that are federated. Which... okay, fine, I guess [[:Nostr]] isn't commonly known as federated. Whatever.		Also, yes, [[:Nostr]] ''is'' part of the [[:Fediverse]]. It doesn't just mean [[:ActivityPub]], you know! It encompasses many different protocols that are federated. Which... okay, fine, I guess [[:Nostr]] isn't commonly known as federated. Whatever.

	[[File:Fediverse.jpeg]]		[[File:Fediverse.jpeg\|512px]]

	Also, yeah, [[blog:lemmy_s_where_it_s_at_on_the_fediverse\|I don't really care about two-way microblogging]]. I'm looking to use [[:Nostr]] as a [[:forum]] thingy. There's a related [[https:''nips.nostr.com/72\|Nostr Improvement Protocol for Moderated Communities]], but I don't really like it because it creates [[:rulers]] (specific users are named in the community-creating object). I think it would be better if groups were like hashtags, with absolutely zero moderation in-band, and moderation is done on a separate, optional layer (with default moderators for UX purposes).		Also, yeah, [[blog:lemmy_s_where_it_s_at_on_the_fediverse\|I don't really care about two-way microblogging]]. I'm looking to use [[:Nostr]] as a [[:forum]] thingy. There's a related [[https:''nips.nostr.com/72\|Nostr Improvement Protocol for Moderated Communities]], but I don't really like it because it creates [[:rulers]] (specific users are named in the community-creating object). I think it would be better if groups were like hashtags, with absolutely zero moderation in-band, and moderation is done on a separate, optional layer (with default moderators for UX purposes).

1G-N15 at 15:08, 27 December 2025

2025-12-27T15:08:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:08, 27 December 2025
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	= Lemmy (or Usenet) Is Where It's At On The Fediverse =		= Lemmy (or Usenet) Is Where It's At On The Fediverse =

	[[https:''beesbuzz.biz/blog/12455-Indieweb-vs.-Fediverse\|What is federation even for? The UX kind of sucks.]] Your fetching is done through the server, not anonymously (e.g. using Atom/RSS), so there's the constant fear of your server and the other server's admins fighting with each other and blocking each other. You need a server and an account to follow in the first place, unlike Atom/RSS, which also hurts your privacy. And because things are push-based, spam is an issue.		[https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/12455-Indieweb-vs.-Fediverse What is federation even for? The UX kind of sucks.] Your fetching is done through the server, not anonymously (e.g. using Atom/RSS), so there's the constant fear of your server and the other server's admins fighting with each other and blocking each other. You need a server and an account to follow in the first place, unlike Atom/RSS, which also hurts your privacy. And because things are push-based, spam is an issue.

	Well, the answer is simple. It's for two-way communication without needing to register for multiple accounts, barring instance blocks (Though it's still better than signing up for an account per website, without federation, which is in theory just federation but everyone has defederated from each other.). For example, email, or chat. Email is a federated protocol, after all! (Even though nowadays it's very big tech-ified.)		Well, the answer is simple. It's for two-way communication without needing to register for multiple accounts, barring instance blocks (Though it's still better than signing up for an account per website, without federation, which is in theory just federation but everyone has defederated from each other.). For example, email, or chat. Email is a federated protocol, after all! (Even though nowadays it's very big tech-ified.)
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	Also, yes, [[:Nostr]] ''is'' part of the [[:Fediverse]]. It doesn't just mean [[:ActivityPub]], you know! It encompasses many different protocols that are federated. Which... okay, fine, I guess [[:Nostr]] isn't commonly known as federated. Whatever.		Also, yes, [[:Nostr]] ''is'' part of the [[:Fediverse]]. It doesn't just mean [[:ActivityPub]], you know! It encompasses many different protocols that are federated. Which... okay, fine, I guess [[:Nostr]] isn't commonly known as federated. Whatever.

	{{ :~~466a1ba8-96e2-439f-81dc-090a25953bd6-1024x991~~.jpeg ~~\| A graph of multiple protocols coming together as the Fediverse}}~~		[[File:Fediverse.jpeg]]

	Also, yeah, [[blog:lemmy_s_where_it_s_at_on_the_fediverse\|I don't really care about two-way microblogging]]. I'm looking to use [[:Nostr]] as a [[:forum]] thingy. There's a related [[https:''nips.nostr.com/72\|Nostr Improvement Protocol for Moderated Communities]], but I don't really like it because it creates [[:rulers]] (specific users are named in the community-creating object). I think it would be better if groups were like hashtags, with absolutely zero moderation in-band, and moderation is done on a separate, optional layer (with default moderators for UX purposes).		Also, yeah, [[blog:lemmy_s_where_it_s_at_on_the_fediverse\|I don't really care about two-way microblogging]]. I'm looking to use [[:Nostr]] as a [[:forum]] thingy. There's a related [[https:''nips.nostr.com/72\|Nostr Improvement Protocol for Moderated Communities]], but I don't really like it because it creates [[:rulers]] (specific users are named in the community-creating object). I think it would be better if groups were like hashtags, with absolutely zero moderation in-band, and moderation is done on a separate, optional layer (with default moderators for UX purposes).
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	FUCK okay yes I need to learn that too.		FUCK okay yes I need to learn that too.

	~~= Attribution =~~

	* File:How-the-Fediverse-connects.jpg
	~~''' Imke Senst, Mike Kuketz, RockyIII~~
	~~''' [[https:''commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:How-the-Fediverse-connects.jpg#mw-jump-to-license\|Source]]~~
	~~''' [[https:''creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en\|Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International]]~~

1G-N15 at 13:57, 27 December 2025

2025-12-27T13:57:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:57, 27 December 2025
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	[[https:''beesbuzz.biz/blog/12455-Indieweb-vs.-Fediverse\|What is federation even for? The UX kind of sucks.]] Your fetching is done through the server, not anonymously (e.g. using Atom/RSS), so there's the constant fear of your server and the other server's admins fighting with each other and blocking each other. You need a server and an account to follow in the first place, unlike Atom/RSS, which also hurts your privacy. And because things are push-based, spam is an issue.		[[https:''beesbuzz.biz/blog/12455-Indieweb-vs.-Fediverse\|What is federation even for? The UX kind of sucks.]] Your fetching is done through the server, not anonymously (e.g. using Atom/RSS), so there's the constant fear of your server and the other server's admins fighting with each other and blocking each other. You need a server and an account to follow in the first place, unlike Atom/RSS, which also hurts your privacy. And because things are push-based, spam is an issue.

	Well, the answer is simple. It's for two-way communication without needing to register for multiple accounts, barring instance blocks ((Though it's still better than signing up for an account per website, without federation, which is in theory just federation but everyone has defederated from each other.)). For example, email, or chat. Email is a federated protocol, after all! ((Even though nowadays it's very big tech-ified.))		Well, the answer is simple. It's for two-way communication without needing to register for multiple accounts, barring instance blocks (Though it's still better than signing up for an account per website, without federation, which is in theory just federation but everyone has defederated from each other.). For example, email, or chat. Email is a federated protocol, after all! (Even though nowadays it's very big tech-ified.)

	So we need to do an analysis. We don't want to use federation (in comparison to just subscribing via Atom/RSS) where possible, since the UX is worse and the privacy is worse. So, in cases where we ''do'' want two-way communication, use federation; in cases where we only want one-day communication, use Atom/RSS instead.		So we need to do an analysis. We don't want to use federation (in comparison to just subscribing via Atom/RSS) where possible, since the UX is worse and the privacy is worse. So, in cases where we ''do'' want two-way communication, use federation; in cases where we only want one-day communication, use Atom/RSS instead.

1G-N15 at 13:55, 27 December 2025

2025-12-27T13:55:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:55, 27 December 2025
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	~~= Decentralized Web =~~		= Lemmy (or Usenet) Is Where It's At On The Fediverse =

	== Lemmy (or Usenet) Is Where It's At On The Fediverse ==

	[[https:''beesbuzz.biz/blog/12455-Indieweb-vs.-Fediverse\|What is federation even for? The UX kind of sucks.]] Your fetching is done through the server, not anonymously (e.g. using Atom/RSS), so there's the constant fear of your server and the other server's admins fighting with each other and blocking each other. You need a server and an account to follow in the first place, unlike Atom/RSS, which also hurts your privacy. And because things are push-based, spam is an issue.		[[https:''beesbuzz.biz/blog/12455-Indieweb-vs.-Fediverse\|What is federation even for? The UX kind of sucks.]] Your fetching is done through the server, not anonymously (e.g. using Atom/RSS), so there's the constant fear of your server and the other server's admins fighting with each other and blocking each other. You need a server and an account to follow in the first place, unlike Atom/RSS, which also hurts your privacy. And because things are push-based, spam is an issue.
Line 18:		Line 16:
	Also, Lemmy usually has less qualms about full-text search (heck, it's available as [[https:''help.kagi.com/kagi/features/lenses.html\|a built-in lens on Kagi]]), which already puts it 1000% ahead Mastodon. ((Yes, Pleroma/Akkoma exists, which luckily also enable full-text search by default. Akkoma does what Mastodon't!))		Also, Lemmy usually has less qualms about full-text search (heck, it's available as [[https:''help.kagi.com/kagi/features/lenses.html\|a built-in lens on Kagi]]), which already puts it 1000% ahead Mastodon. ((Yes, Pleroma/Akkoma exists, which luckily also enable full-text search by default. Akkoma does what Mastodon't!))

	== USENET Is Web 3 ==		= USENET Is Web 3 =

	Send post.		Send post.
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	(If you connected to multiple news servers.)		(If you connected to multiple news servers.)

	== Rederiving Web 3 ==		= Rederiving Web 3 =

	[[:Web 1]]: you post online by hosting a server (e.g. example.com)		[[:Web 1]]: you post online by hosting a server (e.g. example.com)
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	I think that is important? After all, [[:self hosting]] is the most reliable way of making sure your stuff stays online (compared to relying on third party servers). What [[:Web 3]] helps with, then, is for people who can't find a trusted someone to help them host. And for [[:self hosters]], I guess it provides a sort of redundancy layer?		I think that is important? After all, [[:self hosting]] is the most reliable way of making sure your stuff stays online (compared to relying on third party servers). What [[:Web 3]] helps with, then, is for people who can't find a trusted someone to help them host. And for [[:self hosters]], I guess it provides a sort of redundancy layer?

	=== How Does Cryptocurrency Fit Into This? ===		== How Does Cryptocurrency Fit Into This? ==

	It doesn't! Well, I guess it could, in two ways:		It doesn't! Well, I guess it could, in two ways:
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	But in my definition, where I'm talking about [[:Nostr]] or [[:IPFS]], or heck, [[:torrents]] (which, yes, is [[:Web 3]]), [[:cryptocurrency]] is completely optional. You could have other motivations for hosting an open node, such as giving back to the [[:space]], being a non-profit, etc.		But in my definition, where I'm talking about [[:Nostr]] or [[:IPFS]], or heck, [[:torrents]] (which, yes, is [[:Web 3]]), [[:cryptocurrency]] is completely optional. You could have other motivations for hosting an open node, such as giving back to the [[:space]], being a non-profit, etc.

	== Nostr's Where It's At On The Fediverse ==		= Nostr's Where It's At On The Fediverse =

	[[:Nostr]] (Notes and Other Stuff Through Relays) is hecking awesome. For those coming from [[:ActivityPub]], you can think of it like being on multiple instances by default, instead of just one. They are responsible for helping you relay your posts to others, and for storing your posts.		[[:Nostr]] (Notes and Other Stuff Through Relays) is hecking awesome. For those coming from [[:ActivityPub]], you can think of it like being on multiple instances by default, instead of just one. They are responsible for helping you relay your posts to others, and for storing your posts.
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	FUCK okay yes I need to learn that too.		FUCK okay yes I need to learn that too.

	== Attribution ==		= Attribution =

	* File:How-the-Fediverse-connects.jpg		* File:How-the-Fediverse-connects.jpg

1G-N15: 1G-N15 moved page Decentralized web.txt to Decentralized Web without leaving a redirect

2025-12-27T13:55:31Z

1G-N15 moved page Decentralized web.txt to Decentralized Web without leaving a redirect

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:55, 27 December 2025
(No difference)

1G-N15: Imported from text file

2025-12-27T13:47:46Z

Imported from text file

New page

= Decentralized Web =

== Lemmy (or Usenet) Is Where It's At On The Fediverse ==

[[https:''beesbuzz.biz/blog/12455-Indieweb-vs.-Fediverse|What is federation even for? The UX kind of sucks.]] Your fetching is done through the server, not anonymously (e.g. using Atom/RSS), so there's the constant fear of your server and the other server's admins fighting with each other and blocking each other. You need a server and an account to follow in the first place, unlike Atom/RSS, which also hurts your privacy. And because things are push-based, spam is an issue.

Well, the answer is simple. It's for two-way communication without needing to register for multiple accounts, barring instance blocks ((Though it's still better than signing up for an account per website, without federation, which is in theory just federation but everyone has defederated from each other.)). For example, email, or chat. Email is a federated protocol, after all! ((Even though nowadays it's very big tech-ified.))

So we need to do an analysis. We don't want to use federation (in comparison to just subscribing via Atom/RSS) where possible, since the UX is worse and the privacy is worse. So, in cases where we ''do'' want two-way communication, use federation; in cases where we only want one-day communication, use Atom/RSS instead.

* Blogs/microblogs/galleries/general content: one way, since I really do not see the benefit of comments here; therefore, '''use Atom/RSS, not the Fediverse'''. ((This is for me, of course; if you do want comments on your blog or microblog, go ahead and use the Fediverse.))
* Code forges: two way, since I need to retrieve issues, discussions, and patches; therefore, '''use federation; either contribute to ForgeFed, or use SourceHut which is built on email'''.
* Forums/Q&A: two way, obviously; therefore, '''use federation, specifically, Lemmy/Usenet'''.
* Email/chat: two way, obviously; therefore, '''use federation, specifically, SMTP and Matrix'''.

So yeah, the title's kind of clickbait, but it's just a short way of saying that "yeah, I don't like comments on my blogs and microblogs, so I use Atom/RSS instead of Mastodon, ''but'' obviously for forums I want two-way communication, and the modern federated way of doing this is with Lemmy". ((I guess mailing lists and NNTP are the older ways of doing this, but I'm not familiar with them. I need to learn them lol.))

Also, Lemmy usually has less qualms about full-text search (heck, it's available as [[https:''help.kagi.com/kagi/features/lenses.html|a built-in lens on Kagi]]), which already puts it 1000% ahead Mastodon. ((Yes, Pleroma/Akkoma exists, which luckily also enable full-text search by default. Akkoma does what Mastodon't!))

== USENET Is Web 3 ==

Send post.

(If you connected to multiple news servers.)

== Rederiving Web 3 ==

[[:Web 1]]: you post online by hosting a server (e.g. example.com)

Problem: not everyone can host a server

[[:Web 2]]: you post online by relying on a single third party server (e.g. facebook.com)

Problem: the server owners can become abusive, or you can get banned, or the server might die

[[:Web 3]]: you post online by relying on multiple third party servers (e.g. brb.io)

Explanation: this way, even if one of the server owners become abusive, or bans you, or dies, your content is still online as long as at least one of the servers is online

The [[:Mastodon]] solution, by the way, is to go back to [[:Web 1]], but also to educate people to [[:self host]], or to educate enough people such that each person would have a [[:trusted friend]] or [[:commune member]] who can [[:self host]].

I think that is important? After all, [[:self hosting]] *is* the most reliable way of making sure your stuff stays online (compared to relying on third party servers). What [[:Web 3]] helps with, then, is for people who can't find a trusted someone to help them host. And for [[:self hosters]], I guess it provides a sort of redundancy layer?

=== How Does Cryptocurrency Fit Into This? ===

It doesn't! Well, I guess it could, in two ways:

* [[:Cryptocurrency]] can be seen as a subset of [[:Web 3]], because you go from relying on a single server (the bank's) to multiple servers (the nodes).
* [[:Cryptocurrency]] can be seen as a way to pay for servers, but this is completely optional and separate.

But in my definition, where I'm talking about [[:Nostr]] or [[:IPFS]], or heck, [[:torrents]] (which, yes, is [[:Web 3]]), [[:cryptocurrency]] is completely optional. You could have other motivations for hosting an open node, such as giving back to the [[:space]], being a non-profit, etc.

== Nostr's Where It's At On The Fediverse ==

[[:Nostr]] (Notes and Other Stuff Through Relays) is hecking awesome. For those coming from [[:ActivityPub]], you can think of it like being on multiple instances by default, instead of just one. They are responsible for helping you relay your posts to others, and for storing your posts.

Because you are on multiple, redundant instances, you can only be banned if ''all'' your instances ban you (and you can easily host and/or join new ones). To prove your identity across instances, you use a [[:cryptographic]] key. Don't worry, you can still mute people. Yes, [[:spam]] is a problem, so there are [[https:''spam.nostr.band/|relays that help filter spam out]].

Because you are on multiple, redundant instances, one of those dying wouldn't be an extinction event (the Mastodon term for "an instance dying and all the users on it getting deleted").

Oh yeah, and instances talk directly to clients, not to each other. So there's no such thing as "your instance blocking another instance". Even if instances ''did'' connect to each other, and then some blocked each other, it wouldn't matter to you because you can subscribe to multiple instances, and as long as some of them carried the users you wanted to talk to, despite the admin drama, you can still talk to them.

(Okay, fine, I guess [[:Nostr]] relays are kind of a mix between [[:Fediverse]] instances and relays; they store data, like [[:Fediverse]] instances, but are also interchangeable dumb pipes, like [[:Fediverse]] relays).

But also yes, instances here don't ''have'' to store your data forever. So if you want your posts to be stored and hosted forever, <del>you don't need to do anything, the Internet never forgets</del> you need to host your own relay. Or have a [[:trusted friend]] host one for you. Just normal [[:Fediverse]] things.

Okay, just to recap, here I used "instance" to mean "relay".

Also, yes, [[:Nostr]] ''is'' part of the [[:Fediverse]]. It doesn't just mean [[:ActivityPub]], you know! It encompasses many different protocols that are federated. Which... okay, fine, I guess [[:Nostr]] isn't commonly known as federated. Whatever.

{{ :466a1ba8-96e2-439f-81dc-090a25953bd6-1024x991.jpeg | A graph of multiple protocols coming together as the Fediverse}}

Also, yeah, [[blog:lemmy_s_where_it_s_at_on_the_fediverse|I don't really care about two-way microblogging]]. I'm looking to use [[:Nostr]] as a [[:forum]] thingy. There's a related [[https:''nips.nostr.com/72|Nostr Improvement Protocol for Moderated Communities]], but I don't really like it because it creates [[:rulers]] (specific users are named in the community-creating object). I think it would be better if groups were like hashtags, with absolutely zero moderation in-band, and moderation is done on a separate, optional layer (with default moderators for UX purposes).

"Why not USENET?"

FUCK okay yes I need to learn that too.

== Attribution ==

* File:How-the-Fediverse-connects.jpg
''' Imke Senst, Mike Kuketz, RockyIII
''' [[https:''commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:How-the-Fediverse-connects.jpg#mw-jump-to-license|Source]]
''' [[https:''creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en|Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International]]